Kellen
There's sometimes, and I've seen this from a different couple of different classes, right? That some attention starts to bubble up in this space, especially in our trainees that haven't been in these corporate spaces. Right. Especially because of how year up is. Year up as an organization is very much like, hey, look, we are here for you. We care. Right. We are very open and engaged and kind of flowery and fluffy in some of those some of those spaces. Some corporate environments are like that. Many are not in there are many spaces where they're like, that's a dumb question, why did you ask that? Not that people will necessarily say that out loud. Right. And so not that in the moment that was a dumb question. But the point is people oftentimes when trainees get to internship, they will encounter managers and teams where essentially the attitude will be, hey, if we're in a meeting and I'm giving you direction or whatever. Yeah. If you're asking the follow up question, that's fine. But if I say, hey, everybody, you know, a plus b equals c and you raise your hand and say, hey, boss, what is a plus b equal? They're going to look at you like you got three eyes. You know what I mean? Right. And so is this is this is this fine line between. Yes, especially within year up within our program. I want you to ask questions. I want you to speak up. I want you to to to get clarity. However, we're also trying to build this the this muscle of one, making sure you're paying attention to utilizing your your resources. Right. And again, this might not be the greatest example, because to your point, a lot of people were confused. But I'll just say there was another example that was given to me of this very same thing of when I I think was the first Friday in which we went to. We were doing our the surveys like we do during Friday feedback. And I said, OK, what we're going to do is we're going to go into breakout rooms with the coach and you're going to complete the survey. OK, OK. Breakout was open. Go on the breakout room with the coach and complete the survey. And everybody's like, OK, cool. Everybody went to the breakout rooms. And then there was one trainee that was looking kind of zoned out and stay behind. And then they pause. And I said, hey, what's going on? Are you having trouble? They said, oh, no. What are we doing? And I said, does anybody want to explain to this person what we're doing? Right. And so in spaces like that. Yeah, sometimes I will say, you know, I'm not going to repeat the direction, not because I'm annoyed, but because, yeah, sometimes that's just kind of what it is, you know. But, you know, I will certainly take into account, you know, my my tone at times, you know, especially if people are are unsure about about where they stand when I'm when I'm responding to their questions. That's not a problem. Yeah.
Ana
Yeah. Uh, yeah. Uh, I didn't want to, yeah, no, I didn't want it. And I know I had a feeling that there was more, I don't know why I started talking.
Kellen
What were you saying? No, you fine. I paused. I was going to take a left turn real quick. So that's why I'm saying go ahead.
Ana
Oh, oh, okay. Well, so I do want to address two things. First of all, I don't feel that, like, I don't think that this is a Kellan thing, you know? Like, this is not something where, like, you know, it was specifically the fact that you said that that irked me, you know? Like, it would have been a problem regardless of who said it, like, you know, and in what situation. Like, it wasn't that specific situation. It was a bad kind of thing. And then also, I don't want to say that this is indicative of any kind of, you know, failure in YearUp to create a, like, safe environment because, like, this is not, I don't think this is reflective of the broader environment that YearUp creates. Like, it is just something, you know, a nitpick, some kind of a word of criticism that I think would work to help create, help YearUp create a more safe space and kind of improve that. But to the main point, I do want to say that, like, I understand that it is frustrating to, you know, answer a question and then have to answer the question again after, like, it feels like you've already said exactly what it is. But I guess the main thing that has always confused me about this kind of thing that, like, you know, the whole idea of, you know, what we were talking about is, like, I don't understand kind of the, what responding in a way that doesn't answer the question, I don't understand what it accomplishes, you know? Like, in that specific sense, like, it feels like it doesn't really do anything, you know? Like, except for kind of express some sort of feeling. And I know that you said that that wasn't your intent, but to the people on the other side of that who don't have the thoughts and context to know that, it is kind of, it comes off in a way of, like, you know, why else would they have said that if it wasn't to communicate that they are annoyed by the question? Because in any other situation, you know, there's not really a use to answering like that. It would be more efficient to just answer the question.
Kellen
Well, so I think, and I will address it, I think, I think what's happening, and maybe this is you or anybody else is sometimes we start to attribute like emotions and feelings towards things that aren't actually necessarily there, or even if they are, are irrelevant, right? So in certain spaces, like, you know, annoyance is a feeling and emotion, right? And so when you're in, granted, we all interpret different things different ways, right? So we talk even in the session, we talk about body language and communication and all those sorts of things, right? But if you're interpreting something as annoyance, you're gonna then view it in a particular way, right? Well, now this person is annoyed and they responded out of their annoyance, right? And oftentimes it's not them responding out of their annoyance, they're just responding out of what's going on in the moment, whether it's time, whether it's what I'm trying to teach. Again, everything I'm doing in the program with you all as the LC is my job is to prepare you all for the corporate environment, right? And so part of that sometimes is, you know, and I'm not gonna speak to everybody that says, you know, yeah, ask any question, whatever. But part of that is preparing you all to be in these spaces of, hey, sometimes if you're not paying attention or sometimes if you don't, if you're asking questions that have already been asked, it doesn't reflect positively on you, right? And I'm not talking about, again, here in the program because my job is to get you prepared for where you wanna go, right? So I'm approaching everything with, I am helping you all to get to where you wanna go, right? I'm not judging you based on, do I wanna hire you or not, right? That's not my space. But when you get to internship, that's how your managers and your teammates are actually approaching you and judging you, right? And so that's kind of where we come from some of this. When I talk about holding people to high standards, again, this is a very, very, very small example or small situation within that, right? But I may not as a PM always respond with, okay, let me just answer your question because you had the question. No, sometimes I might say that question has already been answered and now it's on you to figure out the answer or to reach out to your classmates or your colleagues or whatever the case may be because in a professional setting, they're not always gonna pause a meeting with 40 people to answer a question that's already been answered, right? Then it's one thing if we're talking about clarity, it's one thing we're talking about, wait a minute, hey, I glitched out. Can you further explain that, whatever it happens to be. If it's, hey, go to breakout rooms and you say, hey, what are we supposed to do? And I say, somebody tell this person what we just talked about, right? That's intentional, not intentional to make them feel bad, but intentional to say, hey, you gotta be on top of your game here, right? And again, most of the time I'm like, hey, yes, I'm working with you. We're doing the flowery stuff, but sometimes it's, you can't see me, I'm used to being on camera. You can't see my hand move. But sometimes it's like, hey, this is what it is. So I certainly hear what you're saying, but I also think the reality is that the corporate world is not always, it's not always kind of touchy feely, you know what I mean? And it's not my job to like be harsh to y'all, that's not my goal, but I'm not always going to approach every situation from a, well, let me just answer the question because they asked it, right? So sometimes I'm approaching it like a manager would, and not every manager, right? But some managers, some managers are just gonna say, hey man, look, we answered that question, we're moving on. You know, or even if they do answer it nicely or whatever, so nobody feels a particular way, and their mental rolodex, they're like, eh, this person ain't paying attention, you know? Or, and that's just kind of the reality of what takes place. And so I hear what you're saying, and I hear what you're saying to this person, like, hey, I don't necessarily like that, I don't appreciate those spaces, it doesn't necessarily make me feel good. And so my statement to you is not like, you know, hey, you should enjoy it or it's positive, whatever, it's just, this is kind of how things go sometimes in those spaces. And so, yeah, so I don't know if that provides clarity, because again, my intention was never to, you know, make any feel bad or cut anybody off, but sometimes that is the response. And that is what kind of the corporate world looks like. You know, and I say that specifically, because I know one of your pluses and else, as you mentioned, like that doesn't reflect something that, you know, I think you're talking about contract, you're saying it doesn't reflect the corporate environment, right? And I think the reality is, I'll be honest, I don't know if you know all the corporate environments, right? You mentioned yourself, you haven't worked in those spaces. Now, will every space reflect that? No, not at all, but some will, you know what I mean? There are some spaces where, hey, we hope people speak to the fire. We have weekly team meetings and they're talking about, hey, your sales were low, what's going on with that? Like I've worked in those spaces, where I've had to sit in a meeting with my team, and it's like, hey, your sales are low, or your numbers are low, what is your plan to improve on them in front of the team, right? Why didn't you close this? Why didn't you close that? You get what I'm saying? And so some environment, not every environment again is like that, but some are. And so if we don't prepare you to potentially go into each of these spaces, or at least to know that, hey, there's gonna be times where, you know, your manager might not repeat himself. They might, some people literally like, I don't repeat myself, I don't repeat. They take some level of pride or pleasure in it, or whatever, right? Or sometimes you might have to sit and take account of your performance in a semi-public setting, right? There are times that that takes place. And so that's what I say, our goal and our plan is never to do these things in a way that is harmful or negative. It is preparatory. Does that make sense?
Kellen
And you have you have the right to say, hey, look, I don't like that. And that's fine. And sometimes we it's sometimes like there's no actual. There might not be a a what's the word? A resolution to that thing. It might be like, well, this is the thing and I don't like the thing. And that is what it is. I've expressed it. And we move on. You know what I'm saying?
Ana
Um, yeah, uh, I don't know if you want to move forward or if you want me to, cause I don't want to prolong the conversation if you feel that it's come to an end, I don't want to, uh, you know, yeah, I don't want to overdo anything.
Kellen
Okay, but the only other thing I had that I wanted to bring to you to talk about was just I noticed in in one of your deltas, you were essentially describing a scenario. That was pretty clearly about another trainee. Regards to religious exemption, and that is 1 thing I did want to discuss with you briefly. Because then I kind of alluded to the email I sent the other day. While I encourage you and applaud you for advocating for your fellow colleagues. It can get a little fine line ish when we're putting other people's situations out there in that space. For a variety of reasons 1, because, you know, it could. Fan some particular flames too, because sometimes you don't actually have all the information. Um, and 3, because 1 of the things that we really are actually working to. To do here is to empower people, right? And self advocacy is a big part of that and we get more into it when we get later in the program when we talk about how to deal with your manager and things like that. And so, you know, if there's a trainee or a colleague of yours that has a concern or issue or things like that. Yeah, there are times when, yeah, you know, hey, you might need to speak up on behalf of somebody else because there's something going on and they can't speak for themselves. But there's other most of the time, the majority of the time, especially when we're talking about in the corporate space and in those environments. The best thing you can do for that person is to encourage them to bring their issue up. Right as opposed to speaking on behalf of it, right? Like, if I walk into my manager's office and say, hey, I have an issue and they say, what's the issue? Well, there are some this and I say, well, there's some people that are getting religious exemptions and then they're still being penalized. I said, well, this issue isn't about you. Like, so why are you coming into my office to discuss it? Like, and that's telling the manager that, okay, I have 1 employee that is frustrated about something going on and they're talking to another employee about it. And then that that employee is taking upon themselves to come talk to me about something I can't even talk to them about because legally I can't be discussing their situation with you. You get what I'm saying?
Ana
Yeah, so I think in that specific situation, you know, part of the reason, I mean, she had, so I know exactly what you're referring to, obviously you're referring to the, I put the thing about the church with regards to Jaila's whole situation, and I, she was still, if I'm not mistaken, having to attend church during the time where we had those meetings, so she had asked somebody to do that for her because she wasn't able to do it herself, which is why I did that. I mean, of course I did some of the other ones too, like the one, you know, but that specific one, that was because she wasn't personally able to do that.
Kellen
And you are relaying this for what I would encourage. And this is this is for you, right? For you for your for your just a coach for you in those spaces. The, the, the best plan of action is always to just encourage that person to share it directly, even if they're not in that space. Remember. Plus delta is we give a few minutes for that during Friday feedback, but any training at any point can send an email or even utilize our Slack channel to express something or if they feel like they need to discuss something to bring it up. And so that that's what I would encourage you to do. Moving forward, as opposed to bringing someone else's. Great resistance table now again, if there are, there's a situation that calls for it. Right then absolutely like, hey, I feel like this is person unsafe or whatever something's going on and they can't speak for themselves. But this is just a general rule of thumb because again, you get into those corporate spaces and. Usually, you know, for various reasons, you can't really advocate for people in that in that particular way. Or even if you do. They'll just say, okay, thank you for bringing that to my attention and they'll go to the other person anyway. Right? And so, so I hear what you're saying in terms of she asked somebody to do it, but just moving forward. I would encourage you to for your response to just be to encourage them to share in a different means, even if they can't be on that particular call. Does that make sense?
Ana
Yeah, I mean I don't think it was at all, uh, an unintuitive decision to make. I think that it kind of, it makes sense. I don't know. I don't think it was unreasonable to do that.
Kellen
But I would disagree with you in this. Again, this is a coaching point. I would disagree with it because what we have then is we have 1 trainee speaking on behalf of another. Which again, speaking in space where. The information that's even being spoken of isn't fully accurate. Right and again, I can't speak to, I can't I can't talk to you about another training situation. Right but that's it goes back to the. You have now put your name on this thing that. You don't necessarily have all the information for even that's right. Even that's right. You might not fully understand that exactly what was going on to have all the information, which is why. The encouragement in that space, especially we talk about what contract all the time. If you've got a question, we'll contract come and talk to us and we can talk to. Right and we could explain, okay, this is what happened. That's what happened or even. Hey, maybe you're like, hey, well, no, we did this then 3rd and we can change it. But then when it comes to a public space, and it's 1 train, like, we got it. We got 40 people in there, right? Maybe 39 and we have 1 training speaking about a situation that very clearly is about another training. And then we got multiple people like, love it. Like, it's. It turns state, it takes things from a, this is a situation that that training is dealing with and we're just working it out. It turns it into a communal issue. You want to say, especially when it was something like that.
Ana
Especially-
Ana
Yeah, I think that's fair. We were all aware of the, it wasn't like this was something that was, I meant to communicate it both to the group and to the instructors. This was solely to communicate from the cohort to the instructors, because we were all well aware of the situation. And I do want to say specifically that I think that if the person that the message is about has the same amount of information as the person who is meant to communicate it on their behalf, because I, whatever information wasn't accurate, you said that even the trainee in question doesn't necessarily have all the information. But to that point, I don't know if there's an effective difference in that specific sense then between the person advocating for that person. Especially if, like I said, they were not able to do it themselves. And this is, the plus deltas were specifically brought up as a way to send feedback to the instructors, which is why I feel like it is reasonable to give the feedback to the instructors that the person in question wanted to give during the plus deltas when that is specific, explicitly what it is for.
Kellen
Yeah, and I'll give you the direct reason as to why. If that person says, hey, this is my situation and I'm calling this a Delta, right, then I can directly go to that person, hey, let's talk about it, right? When you speak on behalf of another person, I don't know if that person wanted that information shared publicly. I don't know why that person chose not to share that information and instead you share that information. Like it brings in other layers that otherwise don't need to be there. You get what I'm saying? Like if somebody has a particular issue and they say, hey, this is a Delta, this is what I experienced, we can address it directly, right? Or even if they send an email or whatever, and again, for a situation like this, if you have a specific individual contract issue, we always say bring it to us because somebody could have an issue like, hey, I don't feel like I should have gotten an infraction. Actually, this happened many times. Happens all the time. Hey, I don't think I should have gotten an infraction for that. Okay, cool. They shoot me a message. We talk about it. Sometimes it changes, sometimes it doesn't, right? When somebody else is speaking on behalf of that person, it takes away one, that person's ability to speak on their own, and two, it takes away my ability to address it directly, right? So right now I'm talking to you about you, right? I'm not talking to that trainee about them or you about another trainee, right? So that's why I, and I guess, Anna, what I'm trying to express to you is for you in your own development and career, my encouragement would be to make sure, the best way you can help people is to encourage them to bring things to the table themselves, right? And if you take it upon yourself to be the one that's gonna speak for everybody, then you bring everything that comes with that sometimes, right? And so advocacy, and trust me, I come from a family of advocates. I come from, I'm the son of a community organizer and leader. So I know all about advocating for people and for groups and things like that. And so that in and of itself is good and fine. In a corporate setting, you need to be very judicious about when you decide to speak up for the group or speak up for everybody, right? Because what we're trying to encourage is for people to learn to speak and advocate for themselves because when you get on the internship, you can't be everybody's mouthpiece. You get what I'm saying? You can't be the one that speaks for them. You can't be the one that every time somebody has an issue, well, Anna's gonna talk about it for me, right? Then they're never getting those things addressed, right? Like even with the other thing you mentioned about passive aggressive or whatever, right? You said, I was talking to another trainee. If that trainee felt a particular way, then the encouragement is to have that trainee like speak to me. So I spoke with you about how you felt about it, right? Because that's what we're gonna do. What you could do to advocate, say, hey, look, if you were bothered by it, we're talking about discord, hey, go talk to them, go talk to Kellan and go talk to whoever else. Because that's how that person is going to be able to find their voice, speak for themselves, all of those sorts of things, as opposed to we're gonna all talk about this thing and then Anna go and speak on our behalf, right? That's not what we're going for is we're developing everybody as individuals. You get what I'm saying?
Ana
Yeah, and you know, I don't want to harp on that point because I do largely agree with you and it was just like the specific situation where I disagreed, but the broadly I think that you're right on that. But to a previous thing that I meant to address and kind of got sidetracked by this whole thread of conversation, I do think I understand what you're saying. So obviously I know I want to establish that I know that you guys can't change the contract thing and I'm not asking you to change the contract thing because I don't think there's anything that you I'm aware that there's nothing that y'all can really do about it. I do think that the specific way that the contract is read is the main problem to me with the, you know, with the whole thing. I don't think that the idea of, you know, holding people accountable and asking them questions about their performance in a public setting is necessarily a bad thing. But I think that the way that it is done is, I don't know, in my opinion, because like the way that you said it, the example that you described where you said, you know, people will be in meetings and the manager will ask the employee, like you, there's this certain thing about your performance. And it's more like you didn't make the sale. You didn't have this amount of sales. You know, what are you going to do to improve that? That is not what's happening in the contract readings. And if that was what was happening in the contract readings, that would be a lot more, you know, that would accomplish a lot more. But in this case, I don't think it necessarily does, especially because there's no real room to even, you know, you're not asking us what we're going to do about it. You're not asking anything about it. You're just reading out the contract and then moving forward. And so I guess I just want to say that those are in equivalent situations. And then the other thing that I did want to briefly say, this was like 15 minutes ago I wanted to say this, but I don't necessarily think that there's a through line between.
Ana
responding to a question without answering the question and preparing the trainees for an environment where that happens a lot because you know that doesn't necessarily communicate that other people are going to do that in the future because you know I get that it's meant to be implicit but a lot of the times you know people are going to hear that and they're going to think that is reflective of what you feel even if it's not necessarily People are going to think that because you're the one saying it. So, you know, if you don't accompany that with any kind of you know thing of like hey, this is I'm preparing you for corporate environments because they're going to do this a lot It's like I don't know people are going to assume that that's how you feel Uh, that's I think that's mostly what I wanted to say. Yeah
Kellen
Yeah, and that's fine. And, you know, in that space, you know, again, whatever people intuit from how I respond to any question is fine. And, you know, when you're working with 40 trainees, not everybody's gonna like everything you do and everything you say, and the way you do it. Right. So that doesn't bother me. What I try to ensure is that I'm treating everybody with respect and that I'm, you know, that I am reflecting upon how I am operating in this space. Right. But to go back to your statement about contract again, like I said, my man, with contract, look, I encourage you to shoot an email to your report. Right. Because that that is what it is. It's coming. And so I said part part of it is like, hey, I get it. Most a lot of trainees come through and they don't necessarily like contract. We do. Part of the reason is done in the way it's done is one because of time. We don't have time to go sit and talk with 40 trainees about every every infraction they got. And, you know, what are you going to do? At least not in that public setting. Right. Ideally, with your coach, you're talking about things like that. But we talk a lot about accountability. Right. And I think the reality, man, is accountability, especially early on, especially when you're not in. So it's not always comfortable. Remember, we'll contract what we're not. Basically, all that's happening in contract is either you met expectations or you're saying, hey, you had an infraction or a latest or you had a late or an absence or a late assignment. That's that's like literally what the fractions that are read off. Right. We move a lot of different things. So. I get that is kind of uncomfortable sometimes I get that is not the greatest thing in the world to hear, you know, for all your colleagues to hear that you are absent without notification. Right. The goal is accountability. The goal is, hey, like, and you heard that one of your colleagues had two late assignments that day. Right. And you're up. We had our staff. We coach. Yeah. But the best coaching, the best. The best help that you get in YearUp is from your colleagues now. What's the best accountability that is better work that you get is from your colleagues. So the goal is for you, colleagues, to say, hey, what's going on for you to reach out? You know, I see you've been getting some late assignments. We're in class together. Like, you want some support. You want some help. Like, what's up? Or, hey, like, you every week you get you late. Like, what's up? Like, let's get on top of it. And I've heard numerous stories from the else's. I've been a part of people doing that. Like, in every graduation. When they have the graduation video, people are shouting out the colleagues. Like, yeah, so and so is keeping me accountable. Like, that's the goal. And I think what happens is folks get so caught up in. The nerves of it all that you're missing the goal of it, which is that accountability piece. Right. And again, this ain't a space where I'm expecting you or anybody else to enjoy it to love it to like it to be looking forward to contract me. Right. But if we spend so much time about, like, why we don't like it, right, especially in a space where at least at this time, it's not really going to change. It's hard. It gets way more negative than it used to be. Like, I'll share with you. I mean, having gone through multiple else's. Having talked to plenty of trainees like already in like week three, for whatever reason with this, I'll see like this whole contract piece is going way more negative than it's ever gone. Like, I've never had this contract me discontentious. With the group. Right. And I will say that you all our group that doesn't have that many of fractions. So it's like this group that doesn't really Like we've been bragging like, oh yeah, this group is good. They solidate me on camera. Yeah, like I even get questioned by my by Managers because they're like, we don't seem to have that many infractions like what's going on. They think we're not entering things because there aren't as many as other groups. So somehow Yeah, this, this group right now has the combination of being really on top of things compared to other groups. But also just being extremely fiery about the contract fees in general when y'all deal with it less than anybody else. You get what I'm saying. And I don't know necessarily why that is. I don't know what like all I hear about it is when we talk on Fridays and like y'all be y'all be on it. Like contract shrugs. We hate it. We don't like really. Okay, I get it. But now the goal is let's start you trying to utilize it. For what it is. And I know that we all are very opinionated and rightfully so. But my encouragement or my challenge even would be to like, let's also pause for a minute. And ask ourselves, like, okay, does this have any utility? Would Year Up be continuously doing this thing that we've been doing for 20 years if it didn't work at all? Now I'm not saying things don't need to change, but what is the potential benefit of it? If we, if we start to get into that space or let's at least try to allow it to do what it does without turning that without having it be this point of contention all the time. You know what I'm saying? Like, because at this point, we can keep talking about why we don't like contract and I'll keep saying, okay, like I hear you. But there ain't really much I can do about it. You know what I mean? So it's here. It's here to stay. Even if I wanted to stop reading contract, I can't. My job would not allow me to. So I want us to move past the All of that, you know, and just start actually accepting it and moving on. Because that's also part of what the what the work world is. Sometimes We don't like something. We got to accept it. We got to move on. I got stuff like that with my job. I've had stuff like that with every single job.
Ana
Yeah, I mean, okay. Well, you know, the way that you said that it kind of implies that you don't want to talk about it anymore. So I'm not going to necessarily get into it too much.
Kellen
I will pause you right there, quick, and I will say I think you are inferring a lot. And I feel like we've done that a couple times in our conversation. You are inferring things that I'm not feeling.
Ana
Okay, well, I mean in that case, I guess I just kind of wanted to be clarify that but um, I Want to establish first of all that this is beyond the point of it being uncomfortable because it is uncomfortable But that is not the grievance that I am bringing about it at this point The the grievance I'm bringing about it is that it's not done in a way that Accomplishes as much as it could and I think that to your point about time I mean first of all, you know, you said that there's a lot of people, you know In this LC if you assume that There is like it's split right down the middle half of the cohort met expectations and half of the cohort has infractions if you focus on the cohort that has Infractions right just even just eliminating that half of people who have met expectations They don't necessarily need to be addressed you have twice as much time as you had before to address the people who have Infractions and be more specific and ask them questions and get answers from them and make it a conversation Instead of you know it being something that is a statement and then that's it and
Kellen
And I would encourage you to then send again, this is what I said the other day. I would encourage you to send that feedback, you know, to put it in an email. And you could say, hey, I'm sending this because this is, you know, feedback I want to deliver just in general, right? We do have plus deltas, right? And that's a space. But as we've talked about contract a few different times, like I've been as clear as I can without explicitly saying it, like, yeah, this is not how contract is read is not a Kellen decision, right? So if so, the questions and concerns you have on it, or if you feel like it could be done better, then yes, feel free to send that information, right? Or just to send that feedback, but to consistently provide it in this space with the LC when nobody can do when we can't do anything about it. And it's just continue to be people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody's irritated by it. At this stop, it ceases being useful in our space. You know what I'm saying?
Ana
Yeah, that's fair. I do. I agree with that. I mean, I guess there's not necessarily anything. I mean, I guess the part of the logic that I, or the line of thinking that I'm trying to follow here is kind of, you know, if any of what I'm saying is something that you agree with, obviously I can send as many emails as I want, and I will send an email, of course. But, you know, if you do agree that there is a different way that it could be done, I don't, I can't imagine that the criticism to the corporate from me would have as much of an effect as from you, you know? So I guess that's part of why I bring it up, and I'm continuing to hammer that point, despite, you know, having acknowledged that there's not necessarily anything you can do about it. But I didn't mean to spend this much time on it anyway.
Kellen
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. And my, my response to that would just be that the average CCBs, right. Um, and you know, there, there are things, you know, I won't get into specifically what I agree with and disagree with, right. Um, my, my, my feeling here is more. It's I'm not even thinking necessarily about contract, right. I'm talking to you more from a coaching perspective of when you have grievances, when you have issues, when you have concerns, right. Yeah. Present them, you know, initially in that particular way, but then when it's, when it's just like, Hey, look, this is kind of what it is. Then if you want to escalate it, then escalate it. Right. Um, and, and, and what I will say to you too, is I'm a very opinionated person. Right. I have, I have opinions about most everything. And one thing I've had to learn through all my career is to pick my spots. Um, look, I'll even keep it real with you and I do mean with you. Right. So, you know, hopefully this is, this is a, you and I statement. Um, not a me, me, you, and, and the rest of the LC statement.